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IT’LL BE HARD TO HIJACK BALLOT BOXES IN 2011 – UDUAGHAN
How were you able to manage the crisis in the state and achieve peace? I have to thank all of you who have contributed to the peace we have in the state today in one way or another. I will never claim glory for the peace; I want to say very clearly that the peace we enjoy today is not from one man. Everybody has his or her own contribution. Even journalists have their own contributions. Several years ago, we used to have terrible reports from the state. But I believe that overtime we have all come to realise that it does not do anybody any good. So I am happy that now reports written by real journalists are accurate, apart from the ones being written by non-journalists. Has the peace in the state reflected in the peace we have in other bodies such as Nigeria Union of Journalist (NUJ) in the state? Whether partisan or professional politics, whatever your position is given to you by God. Once it is not your turn, it is not your turn. You can fight and shoot gun, if you won’t get it, you won’t get it. As one of the patrons of NUJ in the South -South, I am also aware of what happened to the union in the last few years. I actually tried to be part of the body that intervened in the crisis, even as far as going to the court to withdraw whatever cases we had. I also hosted some NUJ national officers who came to the state to settle the issue. But I believe that God at the appropriate time rightly intervened. Today we have one NUJ. How was the state able to manage the Amnesty proclaimed by the Federal Government for the repentant armed youths? Mr. President sometime in June 2009 proclaimed Amnesty, which ended in October. For us in Delta State, the Amnesty was quite successful. All the known militants embraced the amnesty, dropped their guns and today are moving about freely. It was more challenging in Delta than any other state for several reasons. Firstly, the armed youth organisations in Delta were more defined, better structured than any other state. And it was well known that to break into that chain of command was quite tough. Secondly, Delta crisis was inter-ethnic problem. Because of that, some of the structures were inter-ethnic. Some of the arms were ethnic and community-owned. And as such, there was distrust between various ethnic groups. If I drop mine, the other ethnic group will come and attack me. So we needed to deal with those issues; that was why it took some time trying to build confidence in the armed youths. Apart from the armed youths and structures, there were also armed youths in their various ethnic colorations. And at the end of the day, everybody came out and dropped their guns. What are the other challenges you encountered in the course of this assignment? No doubt, that there are big challenges. As a state, we are working very closely with the Federal Government to ensure that we have a successful post-amnesty period. The Federal Government has its own plan, which I will just summarise as three point agenda. First is the issue of re-integration using the camps. The camp really was provided by the state government from the directive of the Federal Government. Delta has been able to provide two camps at Agbarho and Igbogodo. However, the Federal Government planned for about 11,000 armed youths across the Niger Delta. But Delta alone has over 20,000. So the numbers were underestimated. That is obviously showing today; the camp cannot even take as much as what has been estimated. Unfortunately for us again, in Delta, some previously armed militants are being brought to us from Edo and Ondo states. That formed another major challenge. We have suggested to the Federal Government to try and open other camps in the Niger Delta. There are empty military barracks they can use. The second agenda at the federal level is that of policy changes. It affects participation in the oil industry. Apart from the policy changes, the Federal Government could be diverting 19 or 50 per cent ownership of the oil industry; out of the 19 per cent, 10 is proposed to go to the oil communities, five to individuals in the communities with one person not owning more than 0.1 per cent of the business. Of course, the remaining four will go to individuals in the whole of Nigeria. Also, no individual is supposed to own more that 0.5 per cent of the business. But there are arguments that if the 10 per cent is given to the communities, they would kill one another? We have advised communities over the years to relate with the oil companies very freely. They will not kill themselves. Our advice to the National Assembly and Federal Government is that they relate with the oil companies, use the structures they are currently using to relate with the communities. Some of the oil companies group the communities into three: oil-producing communities, oil-impacted communities and satellite communities. What is the third issue? It is that when the money is brought, people will just finish it. We have suggested that the fund should not be given to the communities, state or local government councils, but a trust fund. Put the money in the trust fund year in and year out, the money will be growing and will be managed by national fund managers that can turn the fund around. At the end of the year, we hope to make profit. This is how counties like Norway and Alaska in America manage their fund. The effect of this is that the principal that is coming to that trust fund remains there forever. Even if oil finishes tomorrow, that principal remains and will continue to generate interest over and over again for the children of those from the oil-producing communities. And it will be growing every year as long as oil is being produced. That is the model we have suggested. What exactly, is the third part of the National Agenda? Development of infrastructure; roads and bridges, some of which are already being done through the NDDC (Niger Delta Development Commission). In Delta, there are three key projects that have just been awarded. We have the Omadino Escravos Road passing through Gbaramatu area. Then we have the Bomadi through Burutu /Forcados Road. There are lots of bridges on this road. We also have the Koko/Oghere Road. These projects are over N90 billion, awarded by NDDC. What got to Delta is about N50 billion of those projects. Of course, the other one is the star project of the Federal Government. A major one is the coastal road from Lagos to Ondo through Bayelsa, Rivers, Akwa-Ibom and ending in Calabar. When constructed, within a few hours, you can drive from Calabar straight to Lagos along the coast. The second infrastructure the Federal Government is also contemplating and also funding is the railway line. That is between Calabar, Uyo, Port Harcourt and Benin and a stop into Warri as the first stage; while the second stage is between Benin and Lagos. Apart from these two transport infrastructures, there are other ones the Federal Government is contemplating. So the three agenda of the Federal Government are rehabilitation, reintegration of the previously armed youths, the policy changes and lastly that of infrastructure. If the programmes are restricted to the previous armed youths, does that mean the previously unarmed youths have lost out totally? Let me emphasise this: in dealing with the rehabilitation and reintegration, the programme is not just for the previously armed youths; it also embraces youths who were not involved in carrying arms. As a state, we are supporting the Federal Government in these processes. But the few things that are peculiar to us, especially in the areas of infrastructure, include how we can rebuild some of our communities. We have started the process in Okerenkoko, which was affected by the May 13 crisis. Also, Ugborodo in the Riverine area. We try to build a totally new town from these two communities as pilot project; from there, we go to other communities as fund becomes very much available. Is that all what the state has for the post-amnesty programme? We are equally working on the issue of environment. In the last two months, I have been moving around to see the environment. I believe that one of the issues that led to the Niger Delta crisis, which we seem to de-emphasis, is the issue of environment. Over the years, oil production, oil activities, lots of gas flaring in the air, lot of exploitation pollute the water. As a young man then, you could put your hands in the water and catch fish; but now, even if you put your net, you can hardly catch. That means a lot of living structures in the river have either gone away or cannot survive. The traditional occupations of fishing and farming are no longer there. If you cannot fish and farm, of course you cannot feed yourself. And if you cannot feed yourself, you become hungry, and angry. And when you are angry, you become violent. So it is painful; we need to break the cycle. We believe that if we are able to stop the gas flaring, clean up the water, we will have fishes coming to the river again. That is why we are tackling the environment by regenerating the soil; the people will be able to farm again. They can be able to feed themselves, become less hungry, angry, and violent and be able to bring such change we want on the climate. We have been able to key into some international programmes, make friends with the state of California and the governor who is very passionate to deal with the issue of environment. But his own thinking, which everybody has embraced, is that dealing with the environment should start at the grassroots. So those of us that are in that category across the world now, known as Sub-national Government of Federated States, have been able to come together to form the climate leaders group in which I belong. What is the idea behind this association? It is for us to exchange ideas and assist ourselves. What the partnership has so far done for us is that through the governor, I have been able to meet with the worldwide managing director of Chevron. The result is that we have been able to make a commitment that Chevron will end gas flaring not later than 15 months from now. We hope the people are committed. You know the headquarters of Chevron is in California and the governor has promised me that as long as he remains the governor (till 2011), he would continue to put pressure on them. And the pressure is on them really to stop gas flaring. Are the other oil companies exempted from the gas flaring ultimatum? We also try to link up with the state that has the headquarters of Shell. I will also use my colleague there. I know that over the years, the Federal Government had been giving the oil companies terminal date, but as the dates get close, the tendency is that it could be shifted because the Federal Government is concerned that if we stop the gas flaring, that means we have to stop oil production. That means there is no money coming to the federal government. But all that is bullsh**. If they are not flaring gas in other parts of the world, why should they be flaring in Nigeria? There are technologies that can deal with this issue. We need to be serious as a people and we need to put the pressure on them as a people. Nobody can tell me: if you stop gas flaring, you stop oil production. If they are here for business, they know that if they stop oil production, they will not make money. So it is something that we should not accept. The Federal Government has given them deadline, and we are also supporting it. We are going beyond that by putting international pressure on them to stop gas flaring. Do you have any arrangement to combat other pollutions apart from air and water? We are trying to use technology to clean up the water. We are trying to bring that in. Fortunately, we have been accepted into the Territorial Area Climate Change Programme of UNDP. Ten states and regions across the world have been accepted for 2010. This month, we shall have a mission from the international officers of UNDP to come and assess what is on ground. Though we say that we have the problem in Nigeria, we do not have acceptable figures. Consultants have gone round for the figures, but we are talking about the internationally accepted one. What is the level of pollution in terms of figures? Other countries are able to talk of figures, but in Nigeria we cannot. These figures can only be known by reputed consultants. Once we are able to get the figures and have the certificate, they will help us to market the issue and give us international assistance, in terms of cleaning up the waters and regenerating things. These are programmes that last overtime. What is the relationship between the state and R20? It involves four states in the world, which Delta State, Nigeria, is the initiator. We shall put a lot of things together and propagate these ideas of grassroots development of dealing with climate change. We are passionate with the issue of climate change, desperate on what we want. We believe that argument on whether to give money or not will go on for years and nothing will happen. But for some of us at the sub-national government, there are lots of things we can do to be able to mediate in what is happening. Concerning the Trust Fund you discussed earlier, is there a caveat on the provision you have made to get indigenous equity participation in the management of the fund? I stand here to challenge anybody to say that there had been no time we brought in international fund managers to manage any fund in this country. Advising is different from managing. IMF (International Monetary Fund) and World Bank can advise. We have national and international fund managers that manage pension fund for various states and at the federal level. The issue is that we must have a trust fund. Why I mention international fund managers is because of the experience from other countries, especially Norway and Alaska. From my experience, it will be dangerous to give the money directly to communities to spend. It is even more dangerous if you give it to me as the governor to spend, even the Federal Government. There is no model that is 100 per cent purposeful, but it is more acceptable. How far have you gone to achieve your three-point agenda? They are going on as planned. This 2010, we shall finish a lot of our key projects and try to commission them. What is the state government doing to encourage the establishment of modular refineries in the state as a way to generate employment and boost the economy? Please let us remove it from our thinking that modular refinery is the answer to unemployment. It is very mechanical and you do not need more then 10 to 20 persons to run a modular refinery. That means if you have 100 modular refineries, you employ a maximum of 2,000. In fact, you cannot have up to 100. It is not an answer to our problem. Go and check with the NNPC (Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation), it has given out 18 licenses for refineries years back, and none is successful. There are states that have put money into modular refineries and I told DESOPADEC (Delta State Oil Producing Areas Development Commission) to go and see them. When they got there, they only met grass that has just been cleared after 10 years. Modular refineries are good, but there are other ways we can get ourselves out of trouble. There are two camps for ex-militants in Delta State. The ex-militants are complaining of not being paid. How do you address the situation? The issue of those camps is that as a state, we are just to provide the facilities which we have done. The issue of payment and management of those camps are done by the Federal Government through the Amnesty Committee. But all the state can do is to monitor, and as we hear the complaints, we pass them on. How do you address the protest recently by some Itsekiri ex-militants about the non-payment of their post-amnesty allowance? It would have been nice if those people that put on black during the protest actually agree to come out. I can conveniently say they would not come out. I know how I manage this issue. It was even difficult for some ex-armed youths to even come and register. After the last day, we started to pursue them. Even then, they have not been able to enlist them. One of the things I heard them complain about is that somebody collected their money. We need to get things clear. Nobody collected their money. We should advise our elders and leaders to stop inciting these youths against the society. What are you insinuating? What happened was purely a case of incitement. And I don’t think it is right. They even threatened to go to my house. Anyway, let us leave the matter. What is the development about Ughelli dualisation project? The contractor, Setraco, seems to be saying the state is owing and work has stopped. I do not owe Setraco on Ughelli dualisation project. They should not use that to blackmail the state. If they are not working there now, it is for a different reason, and I will take it up. Why are these ex-armed militants, who prefer to be recruited into any of the forces, being denied such opportunities? Don’t you think the government should look along that line than bringing them to rehabilitation camps to become apprentices? Let me emphasise that we should allow professionals to be professionals. If you are not a trained military man, stop claiming you are. The problem we have in most professions today is that we have a lot of quacks coming in. It is affecting many professions and we don’t want it to affect the military. None of them, I challenge them, is trained as a military person. We should not give them such credit. We can take them to other areas but not military. Some local government (LG) chairmen in the state are complaining of funds to prosecute their projects, and there are allegations that funds meant for them are not given to them as they come from the Federation Account. I can beat my chest that whatever fund meant for the LG goes to them. Go and investigate anywhere. What comes to the LG really, part of it goes to the payment of primary school teachers’ salary. That is part of the Constitution, not a state directive. That is why the Federal Government should do something about payment of primary school teachers’ salaries. Constitutionally, the responsibility of paying salaries rests on the councils. As at today, Delta even augments their (LGs) fund by N274 million every month for the payment of primary school teachers’ salaries. The percentage of money from the LG that goes for salary is quite high, sometimes about 53 to 60 per cent. Out of the 40 per cent or so that is left, 20 to 25 per cent goes for the payment of staff salaries. So, what is left at the end of the month is quite small. What are the governors doing about this to make sure the local governments are rescued? One of the things we are pushing at the national level is either you take the payment of primary school teachers’ salary from the councils by re-adjusting the sharing formula at the national level or you increase the allocation to LGs. We are even saying: give councils extra five per cent from Federal Allocation, so that they can pay the salaries. How do you assess development at the councils in the state? Any LG chairman that is complaining has a problem. I went to three LG councils recently to commission projects which LG chairmen have never done before. For instance, a market and a bridge in Obiaruku were built by a council chairman. He is able to manage fund that gets to him. I commissioned a model primary school in Owa in Ika North East with 192 lock-up stores. At Okpe, the police station and barracks were built by a council. I hold meetings with them every month. The funds come as a joint allocation, and we sit down to allocate the fund. During such meetings, we review their performance. I always advise them on what to do. Any successful Delta LG chairman listens to certain leaders in the council. Since the inception of your government, how much has come to the state vis-à-vis the application? At the appropriate time, I will bring figures. But let me use last December as an example in terms of allocation. We had N10.2 billion in total; out of it, salaries and wages alone took N2 billion. By the time we had recurrent expenditure, running of ministries and others, it goes to about N 6 billion. Now the left over is about N2 billion where DESOPADEC gets 60 per cent of derivation. By calculation, DESOPADEC got N3.3 billion last month. Now what is left is less than a billion. How do you execute projects and meet up with other pressing issues? I used last December as an example because people don’t know what we are going through in terms of fund utilisation and management. We have been able to survive by God’s grace. Once in a while, we have excess crude. If you are talking of monthly allocation, sometimes we are at a deficit of N600 million. Since we came, the wages of workers increased. I started paying 50 per cent to every worker, putting aside 7.5 per cent of the workers’ salaries as pension; that is a total of 22.5 per cent above what the workers were getting before I came in as governor. So that shot up our wage bill. These are things the people do not appreciate. Have you accommodated all these in the 2010 budget? If you notice the budget for 2009, we could not execute much, with our projections. That is why we are working on our IGR (internally-generated revenue) to be able to meet up. It really assisted us. Some of these projects that you are seeing are being funded more by the contractors. What we do is to reach an agreement that at the end of each month, we shall pay an amount. It is from the IGR we fund the projects. It is not as rosy as people see it. You once indicted the management of DESOPADEC during your town hall meetings in the state, yet they are still in office. Have they been cleared now? I did not indict the management. The running of DESOPADEC is our collective responsibility. It is a grassroots organisation. I equally indicted my colleagues – a doctor sending a medical bill of over N200 million in some months. Then DESOPADEC had not paid the bill. I was talking more to those outside. Then we had a bill of almost N1 billion from various clinics which, of course, we actually pruned down at the end of the day. We had so many bills from hotels which the commission had not paid. I think we need to properly understand the context in which it operates. It is a new outfit. It must have initial turbulence and needs to stabilise. What informed the decision to appoint a commissioner to supervise the running of DESOPADEC? I did not appoint a commissioner to supervise them. The commissioner does not make decisions for DESOPADEC and I will challenge it, if it takes decision from the commissioner. You can even bring it to my notice. The law allows me to supervise DESOPADEC directly or get a liaison. It is to let me know, frequently, goings on in the commission. She does not sit at the board of the commission, and it is the board that makes a lot of contract award and others. The governors are said to have agreed that President Umaru Yar’Adua can rule from exile. What informed this decision? Mr. President is not on exile. No governor is saying he can rule from exile. All we know is that there are issues with his health and it is currently being managed in a hospital in Saudi Arabia. From what we get and hear, the condition is improving. By the grace of God, he will come back to his office. Due to increase in the prices of petroleum products, what will now happen to the intra-city buses and cars being managed by the state government? Let me assure Deltans that we will not increase transport fares, as far as those buses are concerned, even if there is deregulation of oil sector tomorrow. If the managers have problem due to increase in price of fuel, I am ready to help them manage it. We are even planning to bring bigger buses this year for the people to use. Recently, about N329 million was pumped into the revamping of Pointer Newspapers owned by the state. Till now, the establishment has nothing like printing machine, circulation buses and others. What is the problem? I tried to avoid things I don’t know. The newspaper business is still a business that remains a misery to me. The more you look, the less you see. Not just the government newspapers, but the private ones. I interacted with some publishers and some of them told me the strain they go through in trying to put newspapers on the newsstands every day. We are committed to making sure we have a newspaper that is befitting to Delta State. Politicians have encroached on some plots of land belonging to NUJ in Asaba. How do you help the union to get its land back? I think we have learnt one or two lessons on the effects of quarrel. When you allow quarrel to linger for too long, by the time you settle, a lot of things happen. Anyway, I will get further detail on that. Some areas in Asaba and Warri such as Delta Steel Company area Okpanam, Ibusa roads do not enjoy street lights like others. What can be done to extend it to these areas? As fund becomes available we shall do more. Last May Day, you made a pronouncement that all casual workers in the state should be converted to permanent staff. But till now, they have not been converted. What is delaying it? I understand there is a Nigerian factor. I understand that the list that eventually came was more than the list of casual workers in government. The Head of Service (HoS) has set up a committee to scrutinise the list. It is the problem we are having with DESOPADEC now. To draw a line on the issue of staff, the next thing I saw was the staff that was not on the nominal role suddenly appears, to the extent that the number of workers that we eventually have was more than the list that was there when I said the workers were too many. We are blaming government and we complicate these problems for government. But I can assure you that I will get to the HoS to quickly scrutinise the list of the casual workers. All you need is patience. Sapele market and stadium seem to be abandoned for a long time. When shall they be completed? They are already working on Sapele Market now. I have given the contractor handling the stadium project January ultimatum. We have paid completely for the stadium. If he does not do it this month, I will take the job from him and take him to court. How is the state going to fare concerning 2011 governorship election and your adoption for second term by some groups? My appeal to politicians is that as 2010 comes, we have worked very hard to achieve peace and security. Whatever political moves, consultation, things are being put up; let it be done peacefully, without rancour. Everybody is entitled to aspire to any position. But what everybody is not entitled to is to cause violence. If you cause crisis, the law will take its course. Do your politics peacefully, without threat and you will have many people supporting you. In the next election, it will be very difficult to hijack or stuff ballot boxes. We are moving towards a situation where people want to see credible elections that you ever think. When you want a position, you should be able to tell the people your antecedents and what you have to offer them. Let the people judge. But if you want to cause insecurity and violence, Deltans may not agree with you. So let us encourage peaceful political movements, actions and association.   
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